ORDOJ Deposition (Part 3)
Videographer: [00:00:00] Logan, do you remember how to go to the, uh, the gallery view?
Logan M Isaac: Y- yeah.
Videographer: Okay. Sometimes, uh, when you leave the meeting and then come back in, you'll default out and it'll take all of the, the choices you made out. So upper right-hand corner.
Logan M Isaac: Yeah, that's
Videographer: why- Um, well, okay, good. And then you can also remove the non-video participants if you'd like.
Third option from the bottom, same icon. Council, when you're ready to proceed
Jill Schneider, ORDOJ: State is ready.
Videographer: Thank you. Ms. Douglas?
Jill Schneider, ORDOJ: Yep.
Videographer: Thank you very much. Please stand by, everybody[00:01:00]
Going back on the record at the time was 124
Jill Schneider, ORDOJ: So we are back on the record now. Uh, we did take a short lunch break, but w- there were some technical issues. I wanna make sure the last question that I asked is recorded and we get an answer for it. But I do not anticipate this is gonna take too much longer, uh, regarding the questions. Um, I know the court reporter has several, uh, spellings she'd like to verify.
So if you can, after we go off the record, hang on for 10 minutes just to make sure that the spellings are correct. Is that okay?
Logan M Isaac: Sure.
Jill Schneider, ORDOJ: Okay. So Ms. Douglas, can you read the last question that I, I asked?
Videographer: One moment please[00:02:00]
Jill Schneider, ORDOJ: Sir, this is a copy of the legislature branch personnel rule 27 regarding a safe, respectful, and inclusive workplace. Are you aware of this rule?
Logan M Isaac: Should I answer now?
Jill Schneider, ORDOJ: Yes
Logan M Isaac: Uh, Brett Haynes brought it to my attention when he sent the rescission letter the day after the state filed its response. Okay
Jill Schneider, ORDOJ: And you are aware, are you aware that the, um, rule was, um, disseminated to, uh, legislative employees?
Logan M Isaac: Uh, no.
Jill Schneider, ORDOJ: Okay.
Logan M Isaac: I, I assumed it would be, but no. Okay. I don't think he said anything about that.
Jill Schneider, ORDOJ: Okay. Um, I wanna ask you about your third claim, which [00:03:00] is on page seven of the complaint. Alice, if you could put that up
So this is under claim three. Um, y- the evidence r- uh, f- that you list for, um, to prove that there was a conspiracy to violate federal rights includes, uh... Well, first of all, you have, um, Senator Manning listed as an individual. Y- y- you, you are aware that Senator Manning t- is not in this lawsuit, correct?
Logan M Isaac: I'm aware he was dismissed on legislative immunity, but he is still a fact witness, and I'm still pursuing conspiracy.
Jill Schneider, ORDOJ: Um, well, Senator, are you aware that Senator Manning has been dismissed from this lawsuit?
Logan M Isaac: I've already answered that question.
Jill Schneider, ORDOJ: Okay. Um, [00:04:00] the, the... You say the evidence includes coordinated timing of escalating restrictions. What do you mean by coordinated timing of escalating restrictions?
Logan M Isaac: A reasonable person would look at the timing and how tight it was.
It's like a tight shot group of bullets in a target. I think it's perfectly reasonable to want to explore whether or not anybody was seeking a meeting of the minds. For example, the emails that came from James Yohn to the Oregon State Police, the email from Therese Bottomley at The Oregonian, which went to Brett Haynes instead of the Oregon State Police.
So all of those claims are yet being adjudicated because I'm still waiting on discovery production
Jill Schneider, ORDOJ: So when you say e- uh, evidence includes the coordinated timing of escalating restrictions, is it fair to say that you still think that you, uh, uh, have evidence to [00:05:00] uncover for your proof?
Logan M Isaac: Uh, I am aware that I got sent new documents naming Manning explicitly and his administrative tasks. That was last night at I wanna say 9:00.
Tracy, do you, do you know what time that was sent?
Jill Schneider, ORDOJ: Um, s- uh, m- uh, Brother Isaac, this is the deposition between you and me. Okay. I didn't send the discovery. I understand that the discovery has been sent on a rolling basis. Yeah. Are you saying that you still do not have evidence of coordinated timing of escalating restrictions, but you have not yet reviewed the discovery that was produced?
Logan M Isaac: I am in the process of reviewing all of that stuff, and discovery is not closed. It doesn't close until tonight at midnight for some of it, and for Shelley Boshart Davis, what, I think it's the... I think it's December 4th, but I'm not sure. So we're in the midst of it, so to ask a conclusion seems preemptive.[00:06:00]
Jill Schneider, ORDOJ: What evidence do you have within the documents that you've seen to date that you believe is evidence of coordinated timing of escalating restrictions?
Logan M Isaac: I don't have... I haven't formed a belief yet. I'm still collecting evidence. That's how deduction works
Jill Schneider, ORDOJ: So when you make a claim of conspiracy, are you saying that you, you think there might be one, but you can't prove one yet?
Logan M Isaac: I am claiming that there does seem to be a reasonable inference from what facts I had when I filed this on July 3rd, 2025, and I'm still waiting on the state to produce the evidence it's required by law to produce.
That is what I'm saying.
Jill Schneider, ORDOJ: Okay. Uh, subset B of, uh, of paragraph 52, cross-agency consistency in retaliatory narrative. Uh, what do you mean by that?
Logan M Isaac: [00:07:00] Well, the ODVA director, um, called the executive branch enforcement agency, state police, for some alleged racist remark that I didn't know about until I got discovery.
Uh, the OSP, it's hard to tell. Um, Perry was advised directly by the state police that I was well within my rights, which is no different than what I said in my email. Uh, OSP also seems to be party to emails that should, should, I would think, a reasonable p- person would think, would raise alarm bells for people who are in the profession of enforcing our laws.
Um, so I'm still, like I said, still in the process of receiving discovery, which the state has failed to complete.
Jill Schneider, ORDOJ: You also claim admissions by Senator Thatcher are evidence of a conspiracy. What are those admissions?
Logan M Isaac: She said that Manning killed it because he didn't like my behavior. He felt that I got too uppity, [00:08:00] to use 1950s parlance
Jill Schneider, ORDOJ: And you're basing that on email evidence that you have received, is that correct?
Logan M Isaac: Uh, and I've provided to counsel, that's correct.
Jill Schneider, ORDOJ: Right. Um, anything other than that email? Probably.
Did Se- did you have any conversations with Senator Thatcher?
Logan M Isaac: Yes.
Jill Schneider, ORDOJ: Regarding why the bill was not advanced? Uh, uh, let me back that up because that was a very poor question. Did you have any personal conversations with Senator Thatcher other than that email where she says it did not advance out of the committee?
Do you have any other conversations with Senator Thatcher, um, that you believe are evidence of a conspiracy?
Logan M Isaac: Uh, there's two clauses to that question. Which one would you like me to answer?
Jill Schneider, ORDOJ: Do you have any [00:09:00] other evidence?
Logan M Isaac: I'm still waiting on evidence from the state, so that is a preemptive question I cannot answer comprehensively.
Jill Schneider, ORDOJ: So the answer to my question, as we sit here today, is you do not have any other evidence other than the email from Senator Thatcher to prove evidence of a conspiracy. Is that correct?
Logan M Isaac: Objection. Form, repetitive. I've already stated for the record what my answer is.
Jill Schneider, ORDOJ: Okay. And you understand that if your answer, um, is incomplete because you choose not to respond, you do not get the opportunity to fill in the record.
Do you understand that?
Logan M Isaac: I understand that it is 13:33 on November 5th. Discovery closes at ele- uh, 23:59 and 59 seconds tonight. We've already had this conversation with Tracy earlier about what the definition of by a certain date means. So it is impossible to answer your question. You can repeat it as many times as you [00:10:00] like.
State the... My government has not completed discovery. I am barred from answering logically and truthfully until that time closes.
Jill Schneider, ORDOJ: Uh, that is not correct, and that is not my quest- my question. As we sit here, I asked you if you have any other evidence from Senator Thatcher that is evidence of a conspiracy.
If you are going to get more, that's something else. But my answer today is, what evidence do you have by Senator Thatcher?
Logan M Isaac: Objection. Form, repetitive. I've already answered that question.
Jill Schneider, ORDOJ: I wanna ask you about your claim Um, for damages. The only thing I'm, I'm interested in right now is that you want the court to award compensatory [00:11:00] damages against the individual defendants. What compensatory damages are you alleging?
Logan M Isaac: Compensation? Is that what compensatory means?
Jill Schneider, ORDOJ: Yes.
Logan M Isaac: Ah, okay. There's your answer.
Jill Schneider, ORDOJ: Well, compensation for what?
Logan M Isaac: All applicable.
Jill Schneider, ORDOJ: Okay. So, sir, do you know what compensatory damages are when you file a complaint?
Logan M Isaac: I have two master's degrees. I know exactly what you're saying. If you think that you can hide the definition of a language behind a private definition that only lawyers get access to, I'm gonna call bullshit.
Jill Schneider, ORDOJ: Yeah. Well, please- I, I, I don't know how
Logan M Isaac: else to answer that.
Jill Schneider, ORDOJ: Yeah. Well, first of all, please do not use profanity in a court record. Second of all, compensatory damages are damages to make up for economic losses as a result of this lawsuit. What economic losses have y- you incurred?
Logan M Isaac: I, I'm gonna go [00:12:00] back because I wanna make sure I understand you.
Um, what, what pro- prohibits me from speaking freely while I'm under oath?
Jill Schneider, ORDOJ: Um, do you think it is proper to use profanity in a deposition?
Logan M Isaac: I'll rephrase that for you. Who do you think is in charge of, of our... the foundation of our legal framework?
Jill Schneider, ORDOJ: Uh, sir, you don't get to ask questions in a deposition. Okay.
My question is, do you think it's proper to use profanity in a deposition?
Logan M Isaac: What do you mean proper?
Jill Schneider, ORDOJ: You do not get to ask questions, sir. Is it appropriate, if you think that that is the correct word, to use profanity in a deposition?
Logan M Isaac: Appropriate to whom?
Jill Schneider, ORDOJ: to the court [00:13:00]
Logan M Isaac: Who is the boss of the court?
Jill Schneider, ORDOJ: Well, sir, we'll move on because you are, uh, invading the province of a deposition.
This is not your deposition. This is my deposition- You didn't ask better questions ... my deposition of you, and you are doing yourself a disservice by not allowing your information to come out. What- I disagree, and I don't think you and I have the same definition of service ... compensatory damages against the individual defendants are you, um, uh, demanding?
Compensatory damages meaning economic losses that you incurred as a result of the activities in the, this lawsuit.
Logan M Isaac: Uh, I'm gonna go back. I don't think we share a definition of service. To your question about economic losses, that's a Greek word, oikos or oikonomia, which means family. What family losses?
What is my family loss? Is that what you're asking?
Jill Schneider, ORDOJ: No. I'm asking what economic losses that you can prove against the [00:14:00] individual defendants that you've incurred in this lawsuit.
Logan M Isaac: What do you mean economic?
Jill Schneider, ORDOJ: Economic dollars and cents. Provable- Oh,
Logan M Isaac: money, money. You
Jill Schneider, ORDOJ: think I'm after
Logan M Isaac: money? Money.
Jill Schneider, ORDOJ: Well, you've listed it.
That's what you're asking for. That's one of the, the, um, the damages demand,
Logan M Isaac: is co- I don't
Jill Schneider, ORDOJ: think I asked for
Logan M Isaac: money. I think I asked for d- economic compensation.
Jill Schneider, ORDOJ: Well, economic compensation is money in the legal realm. Oh, got it. When you list compensatory damages in a complaint, I'm allowed to inquire what economic losses you have incurred
Logan M Isaac: I don't ca- I don't take money to be the only economic loss that has been incurred.
Are you asking about money?
Jill Schneider, ORDOJ: I'm asking you about compensatory damages, and if you don't know what economic losses are, then you can't say what it is. And I'm sorry, but that means [00:15:00] that you've lost out on your opportunity to allege them. This is your opportunity. What monetary losses have you incurred?
Logan M Isaac: I don't think I can answer your question the way you want me to
Jill Schneider, ORDOJ: I don't want you to answer it in any way.
I want you to tell me what economic losses. Have you lost any income? Yeah. Have you, um, what income have you lost?
Logan M Isaac: I mean, you, you guys forced me to close my business several days because you guys worship differently than me. So that's one, like-
Jill Schneider, ORDOJ: How did we force you to close business?
Logan M Isaac: It's in the record.
You can review it yourself.
Jill Schneider, ORDOJ: No, that's not adequate in a, in a deposition. If you don't tell me what it is, your proof does not get before the r- the, uh, the court. What- You,
Logan M Isaac: so you're asking me about money?
Jill Schneider, ORDOJ: Yes.
Logan M Isaac: You only want an answer about money.
Jill Schneider, ORDOJ: Yes. That's what economic- Money ... losses are, money. [00:16:00]
Logan M Isaac: I haven't thought much about that.
Um, I could, I could take a stab at an answer, but I haven't thought much about that. Would you like me to try?
Jill Schneider, ORDOJ: Well, you f- you filed the complaint. This is your complaint, and this is your one opportunity to list what economic losses you have.
Logan M Isaac: I don't, I don't know that I trust your interpretation of that, but I can answer your question about money if you give me some time to think about it.
Jill Schneider, ORDOJ: How much time do you need?
Logan M Isaac: N- not long. I wouldn't go anywhere
May I run to the restroom real quick?
Jill Schneider, ORDOJ: Of course. I
Logan M Isaac: just gotta [00:17:00] pee real quick. Still saying good.
Videographer: Going off the record, the time is 1:40
Jill Schneider, ORDOJ: I apologize, guys, for beating a dead horse, but this is important. No worries. I need to know, I need to know what he's alleging[00:18:00]
Logan M Isaac: Am I still on the record or should I wait?
Jill Schneider, ORDOJ: Yes, you're on the record.
Logan M Isaac: Oh, okay.
Jill Schneider, ORDOJ: Um- No, uh-
Videographer: No, no, we're, we're not on the record.
Jill Schneider, ORDOJ: Okay.
Videographer: We, we went off the record when he left.
Jill Schneider, ORDOJ: Okay. Uh-
Videographer: Sorry.
Jill Schneider, ORDOJ: I was wrong. Sorry about that.
Videographer: Let me, let me get us back on the record. Please stand by. Uh, Donnica, you reg- r- ready to go? Yes.
Thank you, ma'am. Please stand by.
We're going back on the record. The time is one forty-two
Logan M Isaac: Okay, we're good? [00:19:00] Ms. Snyder?
Jill Schneider, ORDOJ: Uh, yes, I'm ready.
Logan M Isaac: Okay. Okay, sorry. I just wasn't... Sorry.
Jill Schneider, ORDOJ: Yeah.
Logan M Isaac: So I've only had to think about this recently, um, and that was through Oregon State University, who is in this record because James Yahn, the chief of police, reached out to OSP and asked for information. And I'm still waiting on document production from OSU because I don't, I don't-- I'm just gonna be frank.
I don't trust you guys to give me things in good faith. You're gonna try and protect state employees. Whatever, I get it. Um And after the events of the Capitol January 27th, 2025, and the ban on the 27th, um, in April, Jahn reached out to OSP, and in May, I was [00:20:00] excluded from Oregon State property, university property, under a f- uh, a false allegation that was trumped up to just get rid of me, like Manning did with me.
And that ban I didn't violate either. But when I went back, apparently, the arresting officer, uh, I told him that the ban... This was Holy Week of this year, April 1st. And I told the officer the ban expired in January because I got that and I read that. He didn't believe me. He didn't believe that I was an American citizen entitled to innocence until proven guilty.
Anyway, uh, he took away my sacred freedom, put my hands behi-behind my back when my backpack was still on, and then tightened them and felt like I was gonna dislocate my shoulder. Spent several hours in the back of a squad car without arm, uh, uh, [00:21:00] moldings for my arms. I got trounced up to my wife's workplace at Good Samaritan in Corvallis, where I was, uh, further mistreated.
And I was fin-- When I-- When it was discovered that OSU, uh, was operating on false information, that James Jahn himself, who did not update the system, when they found out through my partner, 'cause they didn't trust me, they assumed I was already guilty, which is a violation of my federal rights. But they only believed my partner.
And at that time, they didn't take the cuffs off. They took me in the back of the squad car, where the bad guys sit, all the way back through Oregon State University campus to my car and said goodbye. Now, I say that because I, I was asked by Oregon State University private law firm, Melissa Rawlinson of Miller Nash, how would I quantify that damage?
And in that case, luckily, there was a, [00:22:00] an Oregon State jury that awarded, uh, Garza, I can't remember his first name, but he was arrested, um, he was roughed up, and then he was released ever s- after several hours in 2015. In 2021, they ga-- a jury gave Garza three million dollars And I was like, you know, I've been roughed up, but also, like, the VA sucks, and I don't know what kind of further damage they did.
Anyway, I thought, I'm not a-- I, I can do less than Garza. I gave Melissa Rollinson a window when she asked me to define the monetary terms. That's how I understand what you call, uh, uh, compensatory damages. Um, I gave her a window of half a million to two million because that's just a guess. She wanted money, and I gave it to her.
Now, this isn't as bad as that, and also it's not the [00:23:00] same. So this is how I understand economic damages, which is-- which to me, uh, language doesn't arrive from nowhere. It means family. My family, a military family, has depri- been deprived since its inception the rights that we were supposed to be given under Title Eighteen, Section Thirteen eighty-nine.
And if you want to run this back all the way to, uh, about sixteen, we can. But I'm not here to waste anybody's time. I'm here to answer your question about how to quantify the withholding of my federal rights from a state bo- by a state body. And luckily, that's exactly what Title Forty-two, Section Nineteen eighty-three is about.
It doesn't, however, give me any more information about how to assign a number to this egregious, profane act by my own government. So this is how I kind of-- Th-this is how someone I trust helped me conceptualize what a number would have to [00:24:00] reflect. So I was in Iraq in two thousand and four. Um- Nope, need something stronger.
Um, shortly before I deployed, my platoon sergeant made me his driver
I did this involuntarily because that's what I understand public service to entail. I drove for over 8,000 miles in country, and the first thousand miles, you know what happened? We hit an IED. Now, nobody was hurt, luckily But it made one thing really clear. We don't have an agreement with these fucking terrorists.
We don't have an agreement with them. We don't have a social contract. We don't have any contract. They're gonna try and enact their will on me regardless of the law, regardless of any understanding, [00:25:00] regardless of Human decency Now, from that point forward, the second day I was in country, in a vehicle on a con- four-day-long convoy, through my return from combat, I knew my freedom was restricted.
I knew that if I violated whatever the fuck is in their heads, I could get killed. That is what I would call a, a political death. You don't have a political life if someone could kill you without question, without appeal, without accountability
Jill Schneider, ORDOJ: I've spent- I'm, I'm, I appreciate that you have a great, deeply felt, um, conception of the, the fact that, or the, the belief that you've been injured.
That doesn't answer my question. My question is- Because you interrupted me ... what economic loss are you claiming? What [00:26:00] economic, what monetary loss did you incur? Did you go to the hospital and have medical bills? Did you lose wages? You s- talked about that you were forced to close your business. When did you close your business?
What does that mean? That's the economic loss that this question is d- dedicated to.
Logan M Isaac: I'll continue answering since you interrupted me.
Jill Schneider, ORDOJ: All right, except that that doesn't answer the question that I have, which means that you are losing your opportunity to say what it is that you're claiming from this lawsuit.
I'll continue. You understand that?
Logan M Isaac: I'll continue. Maybe don't assume that I don't understand things. Maybe just not interrupt me. Shall I continue, or do you have something else to input?
Jill Schneider, ORDOJ: Um, you, you c- I will give you as much opportunity as you want. You can talk for an hour and a half. I don't care. Um, but if you don't tell me what your economic losses are that you are claiming, you will not be [00:27:00] able to claim them because you can't...
You don't say them, and therefore, um, they, they won't be in the lawsuit So go ahead and answer. Make as many political statements as you wish. This is your floor
Logan M Isaac: Well, until you interrupt me. Um, so to continue where I left off, um, I don't, I, I've been lucky enough that I have 100% disability compensation from the VA, and it's not enough to really support a family, but we can get by.
But I, that does give me the privilege of doing other stuff, like starting a small business. For generations, Americans have gone into the military for social upward mobility, including myself. I went for college 'cause I signed up before 9/11. So I don't think of money. I've never had to think of money first, as you or anyone else at the Oregon Department of the Judiciary or the Oregon Department of Justice.
I don't know. I've never had to think about that, but [00:28:00] this is how I do think about those 391 days in which I had my federal access revoked by my state government. Every day, I went outside the wire in my Humvee with my platoon sergeant and two other Joes in the back. Every single day. Let's... No, screw that.
Let's just say me. Let's just say any time I left the wire, I was entering that no man's land where there's no rules, to quote Tracy White from last deposition. And those no rules include finding people with guns to enact someone's corrupt or ill-gotten, ill-conceived will or interest or feelings or interpretation.
How much would that cost? How much should that be enumerated to? What's the number you could reduce each of those days or moments to and then multiply them by 391? Would that be 391,000? Would it [00:29:00] be three, 39, 39,100? 100 days in a row where my federal constitutional rights were being deprived would be closer to a million.
Would that be $39 million? Wait, no, $391 million. What is our freedom worth? What is the Constitution worth to you, to Ms. White, to Mr. Abrams, to anybody else? You answer that question, and I will let you know if I agree to that sum
Jill Schneider, ORDOJ: Uh, as I said to you before, this is not your opportunity to ask questions. So let me ask you about, um, uh, your allegation of John Does.
Do you have anybody that you believe have been disclosed during discovery that should be, uh, named as a named defendant in this matter?
Logan M Isaac: Objection to the form, we're still-- discovery has not been closed, but as of this moment, um, I would say [00:30:00] Nikaea Daniels acted in ways to suppress my federal rights. Um, Renee Perry and Shelley Boshart Davis, Brett Haynes. There's an email in there where it makes clear, like anybody CC'd on that would have been put on notice that Haynes wanted to restrict me from the Capitol just because of an email exchange, 'cause that's all this is.
Nobody needed first aid. Nobody had any actual physical harm or even really emotional harm. People's amygdala were triggered, and they continued on whatever track that they had started. So, uh, I've said, uh, Brett Haynes, Nikaea Daniels, James Manning, um, Teresa Bottomley, maybe. I really wanna know why she went out of her way to contact the Capitol.
Um, OSP, again, I'm not sure. I, I'm-- I think they kind of sorta did their job. I think-- Like I-- They never actually acted to restrain my rights, only the threat of it, which is the last line in Brett Haynes' letter. [00:31:00] "If you do this thing, if you exercise your rights, we're going to accuse you of criminal trespass."
So those are some of the other people just off the top of my head. Um, based on discovery that arrived last night, less than twelve hours ago, I will probably file a motion to, uh, uh, a motion for leave to amend. Um, but I, I haven't done that, and this is the closest I might get to conferral, so
Jill Schneider, ORDOJ: Uh, all right. Let's take a break for five minutes. I'm gonna go over my notes, uh, and then we'll come back and follow up. That's the end of the deposition at this point. So, uh, we adjourn until, um, 2:00.
Videographer: We're going off the record. The time is 1:55.
Jill Schneider, ORDOJ: Can you put us into a breakout room?
Videographer: Yes, ma'am. Ooh,
Logan M Isaac: they're gonna talk amongst themselves.
They're talking amongst themselves
