20200124 Agent Aaron Carter
San Agent Carter. Oh hi. Is this uh, chief Warrant Officer Aaron Carter? This is he. Hi, my name is Logan Isaac. I am, um, trying to find out information about a guy that called you while you were in Hawaii, uh, was later convicted or pled guilty to like communicating threats. I'm not a journalist. I'm, I'm just a researcher trying to understand some of the laws that were in place that he was later charged under.
But I know I'm calling it your work office. I'm just trying to, I, I, I'm trying to figure out what, what's, you know how to get information. I don't wanna do anything inappropriate, but. That's what it is. I guess so, so I'm, I'm sorry. So who exactly are you with again? Who are you, who are you and who are you with?
My name's Logan Isaac. Um, I'm a, a veteran myself. I spent four years at Schofield and I'm not with anybody, but I am. Yeah, I'm not with anybody. I'm just trying to understand some of the laws that are, that affect soldiers and veterans and the case, the guy that called you, Travis Martin, it looks like it might have, um, they could have it.
I think they could have. Him with hate crimes under this very obscure law, but they, they didn't, I'm just trying to understand this one little law and you've, you happen to be a part of this one case where it seems like it might be applicable, but I don't know. I'm not, first, I'm not sure if, I'm not sure if I'm tracking Travis.
How did you know I was, how did you know it was a part of that investigation? Uh, the, the federal courts, like the, the court documents basically. Lemme see. Lemme, lemme, lemme. Is there something you just found online that I can look at so I can see what you're talking about? Um, I don't think so. I mean, I got it all from Pacer.
Um, it was, uh, I mean, I can tell you more about it, but I don't, I couldn't find a press release from the FBI or DOJ. Sometimes they'll have that. But I can tell you anything else about the case. Yeah, sure. Tell me about it. So Travis Martin is, was like this, I don't know, like neo patriot, I don't know, like Oathkeeper, that's what it's called.
Was he from Minnesota or North Dakota or something like that? Yeah, or like Wisconsin. So what, what he did was he called up you and another couple of folks, um, another guy in the National Guard, and he was like, he was making threats and that's what he was charged under. Um, and I think he, he pled guilty.
He had some mental health issues, right. Um, I'm coming at it from, uh, I, I found this really obscure law in 2009. The Hate Crimes Prevention Act. Uh, created special protections, um, for, uh, gender, uh, sexual orientation, gender identity, and disability. But it also did the same thing for military service. So it basically created hate crimes, protections for service members and their immediate family up to five years after discharge.
And the way it's worded, you know, you can, you know, that's simple, you know, assault, um, other, you know, a certain kind of crime. If it's animated by military service, then it seems like it qualifies as a hate crime. The problem is the DOJ and FBI don't seem to know it exists. Um, even though it's, you know, the Matthew Shepherd and James Byrd Hate Crimes Prevention Act was a big deal.
But it protects service members as well, but we're not enforcing it. So I looked up and it's, um, title 18 US Code section 1 3 8 9. I looked that up on Google Scholar and I found a small handful of, or actually just one case, um, Terrence v McNeil, but I also found the USV Martin case just by searching for attacks on soldiers.
Does that make sense? Mm-hmm. Yep. So I wasn't really a part of that investigation. I, I was, but I wasn't. I mean, I routine calls and I had spoken to, uh, the folks working that, but I had no. Uh, we didn't, we didn't have an investigation. You do, you do do that, right? We never had an open investigation on that.
Yes. No, I'm, I'm calling you as, I mean, I, I don't like using the word, but like I'm calling you as a victim, so if this hate crimes thing is to be enforced, I'm trying to understand what it would be like to be in your position to be on the receiving end of a crime that is motivated by someone's military service.
Um, and so I think I, I found you on LinkedIn when I was still on there and it mentioned that you were at Eglin. And so I just, you know, I found Lin's phone number and I gave you a call. Um, but I imagine, did you, did you report the call to the FBI and send them the, the message or how did that go down?
I can't remember, to be honest. I, I, I do remember that guy. Um. I, I, I remember that. I remember getting call. Actually, I wanna say I had a voicemail is what it was. Yeah, that's what it was. It was a voicemail that I received and I had saved it. We had, so I had a voicemail and then, um, and I call him back. I can't remember, call him back.
But, um, I just remember, I mean, I dealt with stuff.
Any government line. I mean, it's not any kind of criminal, any government line that deals with criminal investigations. I mean, I mean, I've gotten, this isn't, you know, in my career I've seen it multiple times where you have people with behavioral health and other issues and or, you know, a lot of times that, or it could be, it could be behavioral health, it could be, you know, you know, they, they're in some kind of, um, I don't say neo-Nazi, but like, uh, uh, you know.
They believe in some kind of movement or over the government or they're, you know, an extremist organization where they'll, they'll, we still, we, I used, I used to get, we used to get letters out in Hawaii, you know, and it'd be interesting, you know, threatening towards, you know, the SEC or the chairman or, you know, whoever.
A lot of times it just goes into a file. So this wasn't the first time that I had received something like this, I'll tell you that. Uhhuh. Um, and so based on what I was hearing, uh, I, I can't remember what I did. I probably spoke to. Oh, I think he said who it was and so, or where he was from. So I think I eventually contacted the jtt.
I, I mean I had a good relationship with the JTTF out in Hawaii, so I think I contacted them or contacted someone who put me in contact and they figured out, uh, they some searches his name and then realized, oh, this is where he's from. That's what it was. I think I contacted local and then they said, Hey, yeah, we have, um.
The, the JT TF over in, um, or at least the, uh, FBI over in, uh, Wisconsin or somewhere over there was, was dealing with him. And so they put me in contact with those guys and then basically I explained to them what was going on and, uh, I had him listen to the, the message and that was pretty much it, you know, from that point they, they just took it.
So, as far as how I felt, nah. Uh, I mean, it wasn't, those kind of threats don't really, uh, get to me. I'm not saying they don't get to anyone, but like, they don't, like, I mean, they're, they're just over the phone or, you know, if I got a, if I got a, a phone call and a message is left, or, um, we get cards and letters, you know, that make kind of terroristic threats, you know, like, we're gonna harm you.
Put pictures in there like, you know. Just crazy stuff. I mean, just complete crazy stuff and. It's just, to me, that tells me people are, it's probably somebody with a lot of behavioral issues. Um, you know, um, they're extremist behavioral health now, now we don't just blow it off though. Usually it's just put to a file.
If we can determine who it is, where they're from, we'll usually action that and we'll forward it back to the local, you know, whether it be the local, uh, local, um, law enforcement, you know, the state law enforcement, federal, usually see what's going on. Normally somebody will go to their house, find out like, what's going on with this guy?
Like, are they, are they okay? Or a woman, I've had a woman too. Um, you know, are they okay? You know, what's, what's their deal? Right? Um, kind of like, are they some kind of threat to either the government or the local community, um, or themselves, right? So, um, so that's typically what we do in those matters.
Okay. Um, I, I feel I have to apologize. I'm on speaker phone because I've got a kid in the back with. Like kid headphones on is the only time we can get there quiet enough to make phone calls. Is it possible to give you a call back at a at another time and talk about this more in depth? It's really val information.
I'm super busy. I'm working on a bunch of warrants right now and I got a ton of stuff, so probably not today. Sure. Wanna gimme a call next week? Yeah, you're more than welcome. Tell me I'm, I'll probably remember who you're, now that you I it ring a bell. Okay. Um, but yeah, if you wanna talk to later Yeah, you're welcome.
So what is, what exactly is this again for again? Are you doing like a research thing or what? Well, it's nothing yet. If you go to gi justice.com, that's where I'm putting all this stuff. Um. I'm really interested in how civil rights and military service intersect. So I found out about the hate crimes thing, which is just interesting to me.
Um, but for me, I kind of fell into this 'cause I was on my way to be a college professor in academia until, um, university administrators were trying to do me a favor or they thought they were trying to do me a favor, even though I was highly qualified. And there was just a lot of weird shit. And apparently, um, the, uh, the federal hiring preference for veterans was kind of duplicated, um, in 1972 through federal contracts and all universities, because they do financial assistance, they're government contractors and they're supposed to do affirmative action plans, and that's supposed to protect people from, you know, getting special treatment.
Like, they're like, they're not qualified. But that's how I kind of found out about it. I, I, I created a complaint because they were putting me, they were giving me less students and they were putting me in like evening sections. And it felt like they were trying to keep me away from students or like, do me a special favor.
And that's what got me interested in, you know, what are civil rights and why do we have 'em? And then I started looking into the what. Exists for soldiers and veterans because the suicide rate isn't going down. And I kind of think it has something to do with how, you know, the, the military civilian divide as a veteran.
Like you're either damaged goods or you're like put up on a pedestal. Um, so that's, that's my angle. I just became interested. I was trained as a researcher and so that's, GI Justice is kind of this project I'm doing. While I'm a full-time dad, as I, after I kind of got pushed out of academia. So I'm just trying to understand as objectively as possible what those rights are and how they get, you know, kind of filtered through to the average, you know, individual.
Um, and so the, yeah, the Travis Martin one is interesting. One of the questions that I'm trying to wrestle with now is Martin, was this, um, yeah, I don't know, far right. Whatever, something, but a lot of the same. What we would call hate crimes are very close to, to basically domestic terrorism. So there's a, a number of cases.
Um, uh, USV McNeil, ABDEL ca who was the other guy? Um, there's a couple others. They're American citizens and then they, they seek out, uh, and attack service members or veterans on account of their military service. It's this weird overlap and so the, the terrorism people think I'm like weird because it's service members or veterans.
And then the, the, um, the like Southern Poverty Law Center that does hate stuff. They look at me kind of weird too because, you know, service members and veterans seem to have all these benefits and rights, but. I don't know. I'm, I'm trying to understand, um, if there's any overlap, like is there some way that we can be, that we can use this conversation to think more deeply about how, so, how veterans in particular, because they don't have the community that they once had in the military, you know, is there a better way to think about this?
Um, so yeah, Martin is this interesting case, but I'm also trying to track some of these domestic terrorism cases. And see if there's, you know, any, any overlap because the do DOJ does not realize that Section 1389 is there. I've been trying to get in touch with a PAO shoot better part of a year now. Um, and I think they just don't know it exists.
Um, but anyways, so that's, that's my, my, my interest and I'm just trying to Yeah. Do the, do what I learned how to do as a researcher and. Maybe one day turn it into a story, but it's, I don't think it's there. Yeah. There yet. Okay. Well, yeah, don't put anything in the, uh, about me, uh, your interview up until at, gimme, gimme at least a couple months until I retire.
Retire from this job in a few months. It looked like you've been in, but I mean, I'll talk about that a little bit, but, uh, I mean, I can't talk about much stuff, but I can talk about that interaction. That's fine. Sure. That'd be great. Interesting. You found that I, I'd be interested to see what you, uh, what you discovered as far as the actual, the court documents that you got on that.
I'd be interested to see what was in there. So, sure. Yeah, he, he got pretty over the top with like writing letters. A lot of the domestic terrorism people too, they'll like try and represent themselves and it just gets, it gets crazy fast. Oh yeah. I believe it. Yep. Alright, well then gimme a call back next week sometimes.
Alright, I will do. Thanks so much. All right. No problem. Take care. Bye. That was a very productive phone call.
