Sen. James Maning on MCRA
Oregon Senator James Manning II was the Chair of the Oregon Senate Committee On Emergency Management, General Government, and Veterans on September 25, 2024, when this conversation occurred.
Transcript
James Manning: Morning. Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you too.
Logan M. Isaac: Was thinking it was 9, 15, 9 30, but I double checked right as I was parking. Where'd you go?
James Manning: Oh, I'm so sorry.
Logan M. Isaac: I should have paid closer attention to my calendar. I'm here to what I'd like to do is to get a confirmation of the Military Civil Rights Act passed, first opinion, come out of our state.
I want that because I don't have that. Service members, Dependents, veterans when they come home, and even before they come home, do not receive the same civil rights protections as civilians. In 1964, Martin Luther King and Ralph Abernathy managed to pass the Civil Rights Act, passed something like the sixth Civil Rights Act.
Ralph, who is a World War II platoon sergeant, [00:01:00] said in his autobiography, they thought they were done. All their statutory obstacles were felled, so they were going to move on to economic Bill of Rights. And they did that borrowing from the Bonus Army and Cox's Army in 1931, which helped get Roosevelt elected, and created the GI Bill, Service Member Civil Relief Act of 1944.
What they didn't know then, because it wouldn't be reported for another three years, was that service members like Ralph could be targeted for their service, making Martin or giving Martin more protections than Ralph. The Double V Campaign, which was birthed the Civil Rights Movement, was black civil World War I, World War II veterans coming home and saying, Now we fought for other people's democracy, now we want it. I want democracy. I want civil rights.
In 1967. Martin came out against the war in Vietnam Riverside Church in New York, saying [00:02:00] before a packed crowd this business of war brings men home from dark and bloody battlefields physically handicapped and psychologically deranged. Ralph was sitting in the audience.
I don't know how he felt about being called physically deranged or psychologically deranged. But in 2015, June 2015, in the middle of my theological studies as a graduate student, I was put on the cover of Christianity Today magazine with the title War Torn, How a Psychiatrist is Deploying Hope to Soul Scarred Veterans.
And I became the poster boy in the church for PTSD. I didn't ask for it. And Christianity Today later pulled it because I started speaking about it online. What they did was to remove service members from their own story and make it about a civilian. One of my academic advisors, Warren Kinghorn, who said that I and other vets at Duke, where we were we had actually influenced how he did his work as a VA [00:03:00] clinician.
But the story was made about the civilian saving soldiers. It's a tired old story. It's just like saying, All Native Americans are savages and civilization won them over. Or that all women are hysterical and psychology is here to help tame the tempest. I made fake Christianity Today covers to show how stupid and crazy it was that we are still putting labels on people in order to make more powerful people more powerful.
Later at Duke, I filed two federal investigations. One with fema. gov Because I discovered, as an employee and a veteran, I'm supposed to be, I'm supposed to receive protection from employment discrimination. Under the Vietnam Era Veterans Readjustment Assistance Act, 1974. It explicitly uses the word affirmative action in 74, the 74 amendment.[00:04:00]
However that hasn't accomplished what it set out to do because the law was so poorly written. In 2007, a veteran by the name of Donald Greer took the Secretary of Labor to court in the 8th District for how horrible, the DOL only the DOL will piss in a bucket and call it lemonade and say thank you for your service and you're just supposed to accept that.
Sandra Day O'Connor and Greer v. Chao in 2007 called VEVRA no law at all because it contained within it no reasonable measure against which to apply judicial oversight. So according to a former Supreme Court justice, veterans can be discriminated against and it's entirely lawful, even though we have a law in the book.
But a little bit later, I discovered in 2009, the hate crimes prevention act named after Matthew Shepard and James Byrd Jr. James was a black American.[00:05:00]
Signed on October 22nd, 2009, but by President Obama. It was a writer, on the NDAA for 2010. The Soldier's Amendment was introduced on July 20th of that year by Jeff Sessions, social justice warrior. His Soldier's Amendment extended similar protections, but weaker protections, to service members and their families up to five years after discharge.
That was section 4712 of the HCPA. It's right there in black and white. The Department of Justice does not seem to know it exists and has ignored a congressional inquiry from David Trone in 2019. Every FBI field office that I've called does not know what the Soldier's Amendment is. They are not familiar with Title 18, Section 1389, prohibiting hate crimes and biased crimes against service members.
And it's the only law, civil rights law, that has a a sunrise clause. Your protection expires five years after your discharge. [00:06:00] People can, will always know that I'm a veteran. Every mass shooting, my military records might be searched to see if I'm just like those crazies who, I don't know, I guess military, I don't know.
I know how to twitch my finger, and that's about as difficult as it is, but it's always, were they in the military or not? Creating false associations between service members, mental illness, and violence. In 2019, the United States Commission on Civil Rights published a 10 year anniversary review of the HCPA leaving out the Soldier's Amendment entirely.
When I brought this to their attention, They shut me down and hid behind their general counsel. They receive money for providing guidance to executive agencies and they are excluding service members. Civilians have more civil rights than service members and veterans. And since the end of the draft that creates and expands the civil military divide.
If Ralph and Martin were to go to a landlord, same landlord, Martin would have more protections than Ralph [00:07:00] because that landlord, if he's smart or she's They know they can't discriminate against somebody because of color. But they can say, fuck all you baby killers, you're not getting in my apartment. And that is entirely lawful.
Income discrimination. I went in Baltimore to get what I was told, a very highly sought after apartment. My wife submitted her pay stubs. I submitted my disability comp letter. 100%. And the landlord said, I have to double check that document. As though I'm forging federal documents, or the VA doesn't count.
As a verifiable or, trustworthy federal agency. No law protects me. No law protects me from hate, er, the laws that do protect me aren't being enforced. The laws that are supposed to protect me are written as an afterthought. Just like in California, they, in 2013, they passed Assembly Bill 556, while Vice President Harris, who is now [00:08:00] a candidate for president, while she was the Attorney General, they made military and veteran status a protected class in California.
When I spoke to them and filed a complaint against the professional organization, and I went to fill out the initial intake form, the 11 years after this law was passed, military and veterans are not included in the intake form. I brought that to their attention. They didn't the California Civil Rights Division, what, did not think, did not, was not aware that service members and veterans in 2013 was made a protected class.
So on, time and again, these rights that we do have were denied either through ignorance or bias. And the laws that we should have, we don't have because they're either poorly written as afterthoughts or some other reason. I've already met with a number of people in both chambers on the veterans committees.
I'm working with Senator Thatcher to draft what I will hope to be a joint memorial to [00:09:00] Congress, asking them why they're not protecting at the federal law, at the federal level, those laws that exist. Because Oregon shouldn't have to cover down for shitty laws at the federal level. Oregon residents, like myself, should not be deprived of their federal rights, and yet they are.
I'm also working with Representative Tran and Representative Hieb to introduce a Military Civil Rights Act. And if it succeeds, it will, ironically and tragically, be the first military civil rights bill in our nation's history. I'm doing this because I don't believe that drugs and therapy are the best and only way to improve the mental health of soldiers and veterans.
If we don't, like we aren't doing human human dignity and civil rights, we're fighting with our hands tied behind our back. I think it's fundamentally unconscionable that we, Senator Manning and myself, fight for rights that we're then deprived. I don't know if you're a military, but it is a verifiable fact.[00:10:00]
And once you see that it's happening, you can't unsee it. I'm an independent, I would have difficulty voting for Harris knowing that she was AG and failed to implement protected class status for my community. A community that her vice presidential nominee is a part of. Both vice presidential nominees. I don't know if I can support her.
Between the two, I don't think I'd support Trump, but that doesn't mean I'm hopeful for Harris either. So from the top all the way down to the bottom, there are obstacles to gaining equality. sacrifices make equality and equity possible. And I don't think that's acceptable.
James Manning: That's that's a lot. Sounds to me like you've done some thorough research. You've certainly got all of the ducks lined up in a row. I am a veteran, 24 years active duty, [00:11:00] and let me show you a picture. I was a delegate. to the Democrat National Committee.
Logan M. Isaac: Recently or?
James Manning: Recently.
Logan M. Isaac: Oh, nice.
James Manning: This is in Chicago. This is me. We're up on stage, Senator Tammy Duckworth, veteran, Mark Kelly, and a whole host of other veterans. Her platform does include veterans and stuff, I'm hopeful.
James Manning: I was there, so I saw that and I participated in that. I do the points that you bring up. You've done a lot of research on this, and I'm glad to hear that you've got the House side Rep Tran which I'll be talking to her about this and stuff, getting her, if she's going to be lead on this, and validity to it, I've already been of the mindset that Oregon is not a veteran friendly state.
Logan M. Isaac: I've heard you say that
James Manning: was my intent to make it a veteran friendly [00:12:00] state. Whatever I can do to help make that make that vision a reality and stuff, I'm certainly involved with it and I'll fight for it for all veterans and active duty until I get it done. I have another bill that I'm bringing forward and this bill will exempt the first 17, 500 of veteran retiree pay.
That is, that includes medically retired. There are some other things that I'm working on as well.
Logan M. Isaac: One thing I didn't mention I'm working with Senator Wyden's office to close the federal level. The, and the idea, I was, I'm working with Eric Davis, I think. Yeah, he's our major.
James Manning: Yeah.
Logan M. Isaac: Yeah. What I pointed out to him is, like at the federal level, it's easier to amend stuff that exists, but at the state, we have ORS 659A does not include military and veteran status, and maybe changing that would create some some positive effect. But it's my assumption and what I brought up with Representative Tran was there doesn't seem to [00:13:00] be enough to amend and starting from the bottom may also have a cascading effect for other states.
I know the Democrats left the West Coast and I did the 116th and 117th Congress. That went. I was living in Maryland and I did all this at the federal level and they said almost to a T, you need more people. My wife, my family, we've been bouncing around, we're going to be in Oregon. So this is me trying to make good on, the next logical step is to get closer to grassroots.
And I don't know how long it'll take, but it's what I want and I'm going to fight to get it. I appreciate your support. And if I find out from Representative Tran that maybe we don't have to do a bottom up bill and amend instead, I think that might be that, that's one of the things that is still up in the air.
James Manning: Yeah yeah, let me find out what she's already done. Certainly Senator Thatcher is my co chair on veterans. And we're collaborating on a few bills and stuff. [00:14:00] Specifically how we reduce. The first 17.5% of retiree that's 20 plus years of service. Are medically retired, disabilities, folks that just can't do anything.
Amputees and things like that. I think that's the appropriate thing. Now, there have been maybe a couple of officers that said that came out against that, the initial. Talking about they don't need that. And that's fine. If you don't want it, donate it to a veterans cause or some VA or American legions or something like that, what they're doing program.
So don't deny the enlisted personnel who are really the ones that this will have a major impact on their lives and stuff.
Logan M. Isaac: And that's one of the things that is, I met with, I think Rick Lewis.
James Manning: Yes,
Logan M. Isaac: he did not. He didn't like this. And I think part of it is the culture within the military of the officer enlisted.
We hear a lot from officers and 85 percent of the military community is enlisted. And I want to hear more from in my interest [00:15:00] through divinity school was like Catholic worker, the least of these. And when I apply that to my own experience that in the military, that's lower enlisted. A lot of guys.
I think the average enlistment is about six years or less. Most of them get, get out and aren't disabled or don't want to, plug into the system because they're I think there's an unspoken understanding that to be a veteran is not always something you should wear on your shoulder.
Unless you're an officer and that you already have, some legs up. But, yeah, I think that's an important distinction. It's one that I certainly have been trying to remember. And I want to give you a copy of my most recent book. And what got me into this one of my chapters, I started exploring Ralph Abernathy and Martin Luther King.
And that's where I started doing, asking these questions from an enlisted perspective. Yeah I'm doing this stuff because I can't get to that until I know this, until I know my battle buddies aren't falling through the holes anymore. I want to do Bible stuff, I want to teach at a seminary or anywhere [00:16:00] really.
And I, I can't do that peacefully until I know that the stuff that I'm seeing, other people see. And that brings me to my next question is…
I found that just lack of awareness is the biggest hurdle. It's my understanding there are more ledge days in December. If there's a Senate meeting, can we carve out five minutes to do, let the Senate and other people know what's going on?
James Manning: Okay. So what I can do in leg days. We do pre it's informational meetings. [00:17:00] And I can offer you a chance to do a presentation. You can include slides, if you like. For 15 minutes.
Logan M. Isaac: Oh, okay.
James Manning: Yeah, that'll be before the committee, which means that it's going out.
James Manning: Everybody that's on OLIS and everything else plus is recorded and corrected.
Logan M. Isaac: Okay. So that's not the public thing, that's something before the public meeting? Is that what I'm understanding?
James Manning: What is the information? I use it as a platform introducing legislation so that people already know, hey, this is something that's real that I have requested legislation on.
James Manning: But it gives the background, and we do this every lead space. Yeah. Yeah,
Logan M. Isaac: I've been to two, I'm, I just want to make sure, I thought it was a five minute limit. Was I, am I wrong?
James Manning: That's on the house side, I do mine here.
Logan M. Isaac: Oh okay, gotcha.
James Manning: Five minutes, you can't talk a lot. We're like that.
Logan M. Isaac: Yeah. I didn't think I could eat a full meal in under five minutes until I got to boot camp. And now my wife is always telling me to slow down. Yeah. But I've got [00:18:00] to do. Eating is boring. Okay that would be great. I've been speaking with Ramiro Navarro at VEHESA, Representative Pan, is he the best person to Yes.
Logan M. Isaac: Okay.
James Manning: But for my presentation, you want to contact my office.
Logan M. Isaac: Okay.
James Manning: RJ is the admin for the the Legislative Veterans Caucus. Okay. It's, this piece is separate, not part of mine.
Logan M. Isaac: Okay. Okay.
James Manning: But I am a part of the Veterans Caucus as well.
Logan M. Isaac: Got it. Okay. Okay. Who should I be in touch with? Just your office?
James Manning: Yeah.
Logan M. Isaac: Okay. Okay.
James Manning: Yeah. I want to make sure I get it clear. Tanya, she's she'd be the point of contact. Okay.
Logan M. Isaac: Alright. Yeah, I would love to be able to do that. I can't think the resolution, and the potential bill, and some airtime on
James Manning: Yeah, and do we have when December legislatives are?
Logan M. Isaac: It's on the calendar.
Logan M. Isaac: It's not out yet.
James Manning: Oh. It's not out yet. Yeah, because they change it.
Logan M. Isaac: Yeah, the days I think are 10, 11, [00:19:00] 12, but the schedule I don't think was released until the week of.
James Manning: Yeah, they did. Yeah, sometimes. It's that light shift.
Logan M. Isaac: Yeah. Okay.
James Manning: Sometimes they'll do it they'll start off and say, okay, it's going to be Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday, and then they're like, okay, things have changed, so it's going to be, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday.
Logan M. Isaac: Okay.
James Manning: You're correct, but that could change.
Logan M. Isaac: Okay. All right. That would be amazing. I think there'd be some really good first steps. I appreciate you taking the time. Any fire hose. Do you have any questions?
James Manning: I do this all the time. I appreciate you coming by and sharing this with me. Yeah.
James Manning: Certainly something that I'm interested in. Yeah. Facts are facts, and Senator Wyden and I are good friends and stuff, and I, I do know Sergeant Major Davis. So I'll be reaching out to him personally, myself, and saying, Okay what is what's Senator Wyden's plan on this,
Logan M. Isaac: yeah,
James Manning: we'll get, we'll kick some rock and roll and see where [00:20:00] we get started.
Logan M. Isaac: It's my kind of party. Alright, I appreciate it. I will get out of your hair, try not to spill water.
Logan M. Isaac: so much. I appreciate your support. Thanks for coming by. Can I get a card please while I leave? Oh.
Logan M. Isaac: Where should I put my dirty? Okay. Emailing this is like emailing me. Okay. I need to make sure I've got it right. Yeah. Okay. Alright. Do you want any copies of what I gave this time? Nope, he's got it. So we're good. Thank you.
